Mätas sat down with ERR News in Tallinn last week, shortly after his return from Ontario, Canada, and just two weeks into his new role as director general of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Department of the Global Estonian Diaspora and Cultural Diplomacy and ambassador-at-large for the Estonian diaspora.

Your first assignment in your new position was to go straight to Toronto and one of the world's biggest Estonian diaspora communities. Was that good timing or good planning on the foreign ministry's part?

I think it was a nice coincidence because I had just returned from my six-year mission in Asia. I spent three years in South Korea, setting up the new embassy there. I also met many Estonians — well, "many" is relative because there are maybe around 20–30 Estonians living in Korea. Then I moved to China where I spent three years in Beijing. Before the embassy there, we had maybe 30–40 Estonians living in China. So I was also involved in that.

And then I returned to Estonia at the end of July to take up my new post. I took a short vacation and then on August 19, I flew out for my trip to Toronto. So that was my first assignment and it was a really excellent opportunity because right in my first week I could better understand what these communities mean, how they operate and what challenges they face.

And of course there was this very festive occasion — KESKfEST — marking the upcoming opening of KESKUS International Estonian Center. That was really something great and I was really happy I could do that, especially starting this role. So it was kind of a coincidence, but a great opportunity for me.

It must have been very poignant, especially since it fell on the 35th anniversary of Estonia's independence being restored. That was celebrated in Estonia, but it also meant a lot for that diaspora community.

Indeed. And that was just one part. The range of events was incredible and it was almost a full week of events, with different ministries involved and many representatives from Estonia present. And I was surprised there were so many Estonians there from outside Canada as well! I saw so many people from the U.S., from Australia, big choirs came from Estonia to perform, dancers from Brussels and different regions... This Estonian feeling was all there.

I was joking that I was only there for a week, but you could easily get the impression that Toronto is half Estonian-speaking because you could hear so much Estonian all over the city. It was great.

There was a big song and dance festival, Valguspidu and after that ended, everyone hit the local pubs and started singing songs like "Õllepruulija," people were walking around in their Estonian folk dress and it was just this really, really Estonian atmosphere. I really felt like I was in Tallinn or Tartu during the Song Festival.

People were posting that online: "It's like going to laulupidu in Tallinn! Everyone's on the subway in their rahvariided."

It was amazing. Everyone said it's not normally like that, but this is the Toronto I saw that week.

Did your impressions of the community or what it means to be a diaspora Estonian change during your trip?

Maybe they didn't change, but I got a lot more experience. I've mostly been involved with younger generations — those who left Estonia maybe five, ten years ago — in Asia especially. They haven't been there that long, so I didn't have any hands-on experience with those older generations who have been living abroad for decades. It was also especially significant for me since this fall, like every other year, we'll be commemorating the anniversary of the Great Refugee Flight of 1944.

Now I could really understand what challenges they're facing nowadays and how they want to plan this transition between generations, which is also a challenge. And what they do to attract younger generations to participate at events. I could see that things are changing.

Of course, now there are the descendants of those older generations who have been there longer, but there are also so-called "new" Estonians who have moved there recently, and they've merged well and have joined their efforts. It all looked really vibrant and promising from that perspective.

You mentioned in an interview during Forest University (Metsaülikool) at Kotkajärve that the Estonian government and Ministry of Foreign Affairs are shifting toward not differentiating as much anymore between kodu-eestlased in Estonia and väliseestlased in the diaspora, that they're all just Estonian. Some diaspora Estonians see that as a positive shift away from "creating division," but others see the diaspora aspect as part of their identity, since they didn't grow up the same way their peers in Estonia did. How do you balance honoring what unites them with the differences in the realities of diaspora Estonians' everyday lives?

I think for us, it's important to allow everybody to determine their own identity. If people want to feel like they're Estonians joined with the Estonian community here, they are welcome. If they want to preserve their väliseesti identity, they're also very welcome. We want to engage with all of them.

The way we see it, the number of Estonians is so small, so every person — every single person — is valuable. That's also what makes our efforts more significant: we can actually be involved with everyone almost individually — every community, each small community. Which the big countries never do. If you talk to the French or to the Germans, they never have projects like these.

I talked personally to what felt like nearly every Estonian in Toronto; that opportunity exists. And that's the advantage Estonia has, that we can address them more individually and have more specific approaches to different groups, people and interests. So we're very open in that regard: people can decide for themselves.

But of course this Estonian identity has changed a lot over the past decades. It used to be a very closed community living abroad, but now there are many Estonians who are born in Estonia, then go to school in one country, move to another to work and eventually retire in a third. So we have, as we say, this "global Estonian" community. People aren't attached to any particular country; they're global. And Estonians have become really global.

You're now the ambassador-at-large for the Estonian diaspora. What makes a good ambassador for the diaspora?

I think this ties back to your previous question. You need to understand the communities. And that's what we're trying to do. We try to talk to as many of them as we can; we try to visit as many of them as we can. We want to understand what their concerns are and what they expect from the Estonian government. Because we're open, the government is open and we see it as a very positive thing to work with these communities.

I think a good diaspora ambassador should be open to all kinds of ideas and different age groups. We need to be involved with those young people who recently left Estonia and we also need to be involved with those who live in Ehatare, the Estonian retirement home in Toronto. We need to find a way to talk to all of them.

When people hear "ambassador" and "diaspora," some may jump to the conclusion that this job should be held by a diaspora member themselves. If the right person existed in here, do you think a diaspora Estonian should fill this role?

That's a bit different. We're constantly in touch with many diaspora organizations, like the Estonian World Council (ÜEKN) and the Estonian Central Council in Canada (EKN) who are all there, doing their work. I'm Estonia's second diaspora ambassador and I think this post shows the government is really taking this topic seriously and that they value this cooperation with these Estonian communities. That's why the government created this position.

So we work together, of course, but our work differs a bit because we on the ministry's side try to find ways we can support those communities and contribute to their activities. We can apply funding from the government for that and distribute it between different community projects. So we provide support on behalf of the government.

So really, you're more so representing the Estonian state side than the diaspora side.

Exactly. I'm "translating" messages from the community to the government and vice versa.

You also mentioned that Estonia's policy has shifted away from saying "Everybody move back." What exactly changed?

I think the "Talendid Koju" ("Bring Talent Home") message was too early and too strong. Of course we meant well; we wanted to say Estonia's here and everyone's welcome to return — and we're not saying now that you aren't welcome to return. But we can't really force anybody.

And we understand that those old communities have roots in a different country by now — but so already do those young people who moved away from Estonia. They can consider coming back and we want to provide various opportunities to make it easier for them to do that. But we can't tell them that now the government wants you to come back and you should come back immediately. We don't want to do that.

So I think we started out a little too strong and now we're saying that everyone has the right to decide where they want to live but are still welcome to be part of this Estonian community and the Estonian diaspora. That wherever they live, whatever they do, they're very welcome to help Estonia and in our efforts — whatever the country wants to pursue.

You also mentioned that diaspora Estonians, along with honorary consuls and cultural diplomacy work, are really also representing Estonia — whether in a theater troupe performing abroad or just living in California or Vancouver or Sydney, doing what they do. That they're all little diplomats as well.

That's true. I've worked outside Estonia as a diplomat, but I've been living outside Estonia as a nondiplomat as well and I know what that means because there's so few of us. When someone meets an Estonian abroad, you're an ambassador; they judge the entire nation based on you. So there's a lot of responsibility on every Estonian: you need to behave well and you need to try to be a nice person. And many people do that; I've seen that in so many countries.

We recently brought honorary consuls under our department; they used to fall under the Economic Diplomacy Department. Of course, their focus will remain on helping Estonian companies, but we also see them as part of this Estonian community, even if they themselves are not Estonian. I think our department can tap the connection and synergy between these different groups because they're representing Estonia too, just like other Estonians abroad and cultural diplomacy do.

It's very important for us to have this positive, supportive network, especially considering the current geopolitical situation, because we want Estonian messages to get across. You could say all those Estonians living abroad are also politicians in a way because they're also hopefully representing Estonia's political views, especially when it comes to security in Estonia. They can explain the situation.

We have this campaign stressing that "Narva is not next." Estonians abroad, they know Narva is a safe place. So maybe you went there last summer — now you can also explain that it's safe, that Estonia's a safe place to travel and safe place to do business and invest. You can look around and see there's no imminent danger here.

Some of Estonia's biggest diaspora communities are in North America, Australia, as well as Russia, Sweden and Finland. What about the smaller communities, like in Brazil and Argentina? How much is the foreign ministry in touch with them?

I've met several people from South America, even while in China. You really can meet Estonians all over the world; you never know where one might pop up.

But we have good news for South America actually! We're opening an embassy in Brazil and the embassy's already working. So for all these communities, if you have an embassy, they would be the main contact point.

And I know Estonians have pretty high expectations for the embassies too. They want to have a Christmas party, a jaanipäev (Midsummer) event...

... Estonian Independence Day

Exactly! So we're really encouraging our embassies to work with the diaspora and do something.

Of course it's more complicated in countries where we don't have an embassy, but that number is growing; we opened five new embassies this year, so it's getting better. But of course we can't compare ourselves to big European countries. There are still many places we aren't present, but luckily, this is where our honorary consuls' network is a help. And those communities can visit a neighboring country or contact our ministry directly if they need support; we have various support programs and they can apply for funding for things like community projects regardless of their location or size.

What about dual citizens born and raised in the diaspora who want to move to Estonia but don't necessarily speak Estonian well? Or retirees who can make their foreign pension stretch further here? Diaspora Estonians who just want to try coming "home" to their roots.

I've heard some people, both older and younger, say they're uncomfortable because they don't speak Estonian well. But we say we don't care! Because, as I said, every Estonian is important. That's why we do a lot of communication in English now too. If you visit the Global Estonian website, our main outlet for Estonian affairs, it's in English too. We know there are people who don't speak Estonian anymore, plus spouses and friends who are now really big fans of Estonia despite never having had any other connection to it before. So we try to do things bilingually now.

Plus, of course, we offer opportunities to learn the language. There are online courses and if you're young, you can sign up for the Üleilmakool (Global Estonian School). So if you want to learn Estonian, you can — but that's not a prerequisite. You can join anyway.

And Estonia has become so international! There are so many foreigners living in the bigger cities, especially in Tallinn and Tartu. So I think it would still be fine for someone with an Estonian background but who doesn't speak Estonian well or at all; you can still get by comfortably here. I'd say don't be afraid and don't feel bad if you speak Estonian a bit differently. That's perfectly normal and everyone will understand.

Support measures exist, including for relocation to Estonia, but they can be confusing to navigate. If someone wants to move here and just start anew — no IT degree, not teaching at the university — and they have somewhere to stay until they get on their feet but need plane tickets or money to get started renting an apartment, is there any kind of support available for them?

I'm not quite so well-versed in the relocation programs to be honest, since they're run by the Integration Foundation, but I'm afraid the government can't pay for any tickets or accommodation; that money they need to come up with themselves. But there are other ways we try to make their arrival as smooth and comfortable as possible. The Integration Foundation has different programs available.

Our advice would always be to start with the Global Estonian website and subscribe to our newsletter there. We've been working hard on it and there are plenty of links to where you can find all the information. We want to list all the resources in one place so you don't need to fish around for the right info; we're trying to make it as convenient as possible.

Another confusing issue for many diaspora Estonians is applying for their Estonian passport and ID card. The terminology and how citizenship is conferred varies a lot by country, but often, people will come across the fact that Estonia by law doesn't allow dual citizenship and applying for Estonian citizenship requires renouncing all your other citizenships. They don't realize that this applies to naturalization, which has different rules, and that they're actually already dual citizens. People in Facebook groups end up helping each other out and explaining how it all works. Can the ministry help clarify that somehow?

I have to check, but I think this information is also on the MFA website. To be honest, I don't know much about these procedures yet since I haven't been involved with them, but my advice would be to connect with the nearest embassy and they'll definitely clear everything up for you.

Anecdotally, the embassies have been very helpful.

Our consuls know all these procedures and the requirements. We try to make it as clear and easy as possible.

Whether or not Estonian law should also allow dual citizenship still comes up every now and then. Currently, the catch is that by Estonian law, it's not allowed, but constitutionally, anyone that's a descendant of an Estonian citizen is also an citizen via jus sanguinis. Tens of thousands of dual Estonian citizens already exist, including Estonian-American, Estonian-Russian and Estonian-Canadian. Is this a net positive or...?

I'd rather not comment on that because that is a political decision, so how they want to handle it and whether they want to change something is a question for the politicians. Of course, we're aware this issue is relevant and concerns many people. In our position, we just follow the rules they set.

But in terms of the actual people, not the law — as you mentioned, there's all different types of Estonians, including those living abroad. Is it overall a good thing that there are so many dual Estonian citizens?

I think the goal should be that everyone feels comfortable and has the citizenship they want and can, including Estonian citizenship. But whether we allow dual, triple or whatever citizenship is a political decision, so if you convince the politicians that something should be changed, then it can be changed.

You spent six years in various countries and cities in Asia. Did you have any culture shock coming back to Estonia?

Oh, I was still coming and going during that time; I visited Estonia maybe three or four times a year. But there are definitely some things I missed.

First of all, just the climate — the cool weather. It's a big topic now; Estonia is becoming more popular because it's not as hot here as in many Southern European countries and that's an advantage we have. Beijing isn't too hot, but after a hot, long Beijing summer, I really, really missed cool Estonian summers. That a lot of people complain about — that it's not warm enough. But once you experience the opposite, that's when you really appreciate it.

You also know all Estonians are really crazy about Estonian food and in Korea we could actually buy Estonian bread at the store, which was great. But it was impossible in China, so first thing — and this is a very Estonian thing — you always try to find a way to source some rye bread, like German bread.

After getting back to Estonia, I've been compensating for that time and eating too much — all these good things I'd missed.

I'm from Pärnu originally; it's a nice, small seaside town. So living in big cities like Seoul or Beijing, I really just missed quiet parks that you can go to for an early-morning walk on a Sunday and there's just nobody around — maybe three people altogether, in the off-season, but while the weather is still nice.

Beijing's a little different.

Yeah exactly. I'm not complaining; I had a good time there too. But I often had to explain, especially in China: "You're so small! You only have 1.3 million people; we have 1.4 billion." Then I'd always ask, "Why do you think having a big country is a good thing?" Because they'd always look at it as a big country being a really good thing.

But I love it! I love this small country. Because it's really convenient and I feel so good here. I can feel I'm part of a small community and I can walk around without going through huge crowds and it's great, I love this feeling! I don't know if they'd understand me or not because they'd never had this experience, but I tried to convince them that living in a small country is also a great thing.

Is there anything from your time there that you'd like to bring with you into your new work for Estonia and with the diaspora communities?

Definitely; I learned a lot. Especially, for example, that for every country, you have a specific way to communicate with the communities, speak nothing of different channels and apps — they're all different. So you have to figure out the best way in each case to communicate, find people and keep in touch.

That's why it's also very difficult for us to find this one universal outlet, and that's why we developed the Global Estonian website where everyone can also sign up for its newsletter. Because we can't have a WhatsApp group if some countries don't use it, and other countries don't use Facebook. Nowadays, Facebook isn't as relevant anymore because young people aren't on it and many countries don't use it. It's hard; this is a challenge.

So I learned in my time in Asia that you can do things one way in China, but in Korea you need to do things a different way. Different age groups too — how to address them, how to get in touch with them. I'll definitely be bringing that with me.

What top things do you hope to accomplish in your new role, whether as diaspora ambassador or as director general?

Many of these goals are related to the new diaspora strategy that we just approved. First of all, we need to address the young people. I think we've been doing quite well so far, but we're putting more effort into that so we can get young people more involved.

We have this Estonian Worldwide Youth Network (ÜENV) which is working really well. We started an Instagram channel and they're doing a really great job! I'm really happy with that. So this is one priority for me — how to reach those different groups in the community.

Of course, Estonian language education is also a very important topic and hopefully we'll get more funding for that as well as youth projects.

This year, we had around 145 Estonian youth from abroad come to Estonia under various projects, summer camps and internship programs that we plan to continue and hopefully expand. Of course, the government's financial situation isn't always great, but let's see how we can manage in terms of funding.

So youths, language and outreach are definitely among my priorities.

Many Estonian diaspora community hubs including Seedrioru in Ontario, Järvemetsa in New Jersey and the Lakewood Estonian House are celebrating major milestone anniversaries — 70th, 80th. What do you think 100 will look like for them?

First of all, I really hope they'll still be there. I visited Kotkajärve and that was a great experience. You could really feel the history; there was something in every tree and every bush and it wasn't so modern, which was also nice. You could really feel it dates back to the 50s.

I hope these communities can keep those places alive, because that väliseesti identity is connected to those places; they're like historic monuments. Maybe with a little modernization, but the principle should remain that everyone comes together and spends some time together, having a good time and learning from each other. That was, for me, a really, really fascinating experience.

If you could come back and tell your coworkers, the other ministries and government leaders here one main message about diaspora Estonians and their communities, what would you want them to know for sure?

My first message would be that all these Estonians, they are really interested in supporting Estonia. And it doesn't matter that they live abroad; they're Estonians, they're big friends of Estonia, they're Estonian supporters. So we can always rely on them.

But we need to find ways to help them. To maintain their communities, to maintain their activities. And I think in Estonia, our government understands that and many Estonian people understand that. 

And we need to find ways for young diaspora members to liaise with Estonian youth. They were complaining that they come here and have nice events together, but then they don't actually meet many local Estonians. And that's a problem. That's also connected to learning the language, networking and all of that. We need to find a good way.

One good thing last summer was that we had some Estonian youth from abroad take part in regular local summer student brigades. So they were part of this big group of Estonian kids, which is much better than us taking ten Estonian diaspora kids, putting them together on one farm and then they just mingle with each other.

And they're already friends.

Exactly.

And their parents were friends, their grandparents were friends…

Exactly, exactly. So if you're already coming to Estonia, we need to find a way to integrate them into the local Estonian community as well.

Maybe we should bring back pen pals.

Maybe! But I think this ÜENV youth network is really working well in that respect. They can connect on social media and hopefully find friends in Estonia as well. Look up the "Ülemaailmne Eesti Noortevõrgustik"!

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