It is now less than a month until the Estonian training exercise "Hedgehog" ("Siil"). The U.K.'s 4th Brigade is supposed to deploy to Estonia. Is it ready to do so to its full capability?

U.K. State Secretary of Defense John Healey: Yes. "Hedgehog" will be one of the biggest NATO exercises this year. The 4th Brigade, probably 2,500 troops, will be in Estonia demonstrating with the Estonian forces what we can do together. This builds on nearly 10 years of one of the closest partnerships within NATO that we have. A thousand British troops living together alongside Estonians. We plan together, we train together, we exercise together. In many ways, I think we're breaking new ground together, demonstrating to other nations in NATO how we can do things better and be more lethal.

Is Estonia also ready to receive them?

Estonian Minister of Defense Hanno Pevkur: We are and we've been preparing for that already for a long time. It's not as simple as saying with John that the 4th brigade is coming to Estonia tomorrow. It's a longer process, but of course we are ready. All the preparations have now gone as we planned. At the moment, everything seems to be going to plan.

The British and the French have been talking about sending security reassurance forces to Ukraine. There have also been doubts as to whether the U.K. can do this and at the same time keep its commitments in Estonia. Can you assure the Estonian people that this security force will not come at the expense of the promises made to Estonia, such as the 4th Brigade?

Healey: Yes, totally. Any deployment, any commitment we make as part of the coalition of the willing will not be at the expense of our work with our forces on the border with you in Estonia. And that's a commitment that your minister knows about because we've discussed it. It's a commitment I make as U.K. defense secretary. It's not just that we have a very close relationship. Our forces have a close working relationship. I've got a personal commitment to Estonia. I've been, I think, five times and twice with Keir Starmer, our leader, even before we were elected.

I know the commitment that our British troops make. I've met lads from Rotherham and from Doncaster, where I'm from, giving up their Christmas with their families in order to serve on the Russian border alongside your Estonian troops to help keep NATO safe. Because this is NATO's eastern flank, not just Estonia's, and our work together helps keep the rest of NATO safe.

Is Estonia fully behind this French and British initiative? Are our concerns about not weakening NATO's eastern flank being heard, are we satisfied?

Pevkur: I've just had a meeting with the secretary general of NATO. He also fully understands that we cannot jeopardize NATO's eastern flank. The secretary general agrees with me that the NATO Alliance is not going to be able to compromise NATO's security. We also have to understand that, just as Estonia stood with Ukraine before the full-scale war started – we sent anti-tank missiles and we sent a lot of equipment – we are standing with Ukraine now. At the same time, the political message is, as we said on Thursday, that we are still in the process of making plans. We do not have that plan yet.

We still have to talk among ourselves about what exactly we will do. We still have to see how the peace negotiations or the ceasefire negotiations with the United States, Russia and Ukraine are going to go. At the end of the day, we also need to have a request from the Ukrainians for us to go to Ukraine. That is the basis of everything. Only then will we be able to decide how to start. What is important is that we all understand that the regeneration of the strength of Ukrainian forces is critical. They need to be ready to defend their country whenever it is in need. That is why the regeneration will be the focus.

Healey: Hanno, no one can doubt the Estonian commitment to NATO, the Estonian commitment to Ukraine. You and your country have been one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine since the full-scale invasion began. And you're right about the challenge. The challenge in the end is that Ukraine will be its own best deterrent against future Russian aggression. Just as we stand together with Ukraine in the fight now, we will stand together with them in the peace.

Coming back to the 4th Brigade, why the 4th Brigade in particular? Before, the 12th Brigade, which is a heavy mechanized brigade, fulfilled this role. The Estonian Defense Forces (EDF) have a lot of light infantry, surprisingly so for our size. The 4th Brigade is also a light infantry brigade. Would it not make more sense for Estonia to have an armored force to do the things that Estonians cannot do so well on their own?

Healey: Quite simply because this is part of the plan that we agree with Estonia, that we agree with NATO and it's a way of stepping up the deployment that we can make together, not just what we do together, so it can be an example to others in the future. So we won't just be putting our new tanks into Estonia when they're ready and our new armored vehicles when they're ready. What we can do now is what we're developing on the border with your Estonian forces. It's a new way of being able to see further, strike faster and demonstrate to other nations in NATO that we can do things better, quicker, with more lethality if we innovate. For me, that's one of the great things about working with Estonia. You've got very able forces, who are very committed but also capable of doing things in a different way and thinking differently too.

Are we satisfied with 4th Brigade now? The Estonian line often is: we're doing good things, but we always need to do more.' We look at our own defense budget as well. Do we also need to be forward-looking, thinking about what else we can do together? Should we be asking the U.K. for additional help if there is a need in the future?

Pevkur: Well, one thing we clearly understand is that NATO is not only Article five, NATO is also Article three (Article 3 of the North Atlantic Treaty: to better achieve the objectives of the Treaty, the Parties shall individually and collectively maintain and develop, by continuously and effectively developing themselves and each other, their individual and collective capabilities to resist armed attack –  ed.), which means our own capabilities. Our defense budget is going to increase by 5 percent plus already next year and we will acquire a lot of capabilities, deep strikes, air defense, and so on.

These are the capabilities that are most needed at the moment. Regarding the 4th Brigade, for us it is part of our war plan. If we are also talking about the Estonian division, the Dutch-German corps, the regional defense plans, then it is not the case that there are only two Estonian brigades and the British 4th Brigade. We have a defense plan that has been developed together. We should not get stuck on the numbers, we have to look at the capabilities. These capabilities have all been planned by NATO's European Force Commander and also by our own defense forces together with the Brits.

Healey: This is the important point, isn't it? This is the NATO plan. It's Estonia and the U.K. who are at the leading edge, but it is in the context of a bigger NATO plan, because your border with Russia is one of the most important borders that we have.

To be clear, is the 4th Brigade now the brigade that will permanently fulfil this role? Or could there be some sort of rotation in the future? Is this brigade going to come to training exercises every year, every other year, to try to get through the capability to Estonia quickly? What is the vision for the future?

Healey: Quite simply, we will develop the presence and the deployments alongside the Estonians according to the plan that we agree, the fourth Brigade is the next in line. There's a great deal we'll be able to do together and we'll take it from there beyond.

Pevkur: There are different capabilities that we have agreed on. We have a ten-year plan. This plan that we've agree puts in place the development of different capabilities. The new British Army capabilities will also come to Estonia. This is important. That's why it's not so important to say whether it's the 4th or the 12th Brigade. What is most important is the capabilities, our defense plan that we have put in place here in NATO.

Healey: Our new capabilities will be your capabilities. I believe we can demonstrate them and others in NATO will want to take that as an example.

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