In a longer interview with ETV's "Pealtnägija," Kallas discussed, among other things, how Russia's shadow fleet operating behind Naissaar is a cause for concern, how the European External Action Service is preparing for the upcoming U.S. presidential transition and how her new role will impact her personal life.

Kaja Kallas, you resigned from the role of prime minister in July and kind of disappeared from the public eye. This was likely a conscious choice on your part. What have you been doing for the past four months?

I've been studying a lot, exercising and doing other things I didn't have time for before.

To what extent has it been a time of rest versus time to prepare for what's coming?

I've been able to rest, but preparations for the upcoming time in my life have been intense, as one needs to really know different global conflicts, countries and their problems.

I've also been doing some extracurricular reading to give what I know some depth and not just rely on briefing materials. I've met with experts to hear explanations of the various options. Other meetings have revolved around assembling my team. We hope to hit the ground running once the work starts on December 1.

In terms of preparations, who have you met with and tried to convince? Are you talking also to the most radical MEPs in an attempt to convince them to vote for you and the new Commission?

I've met with plenty of Parliament members, and considering that I was a MEP myself ten years ago, I've always felt at home in the European Parliament and the meetings have gone well. People have largely welcomed me here.

You will appear in front of the Parliament tomorrow (the interview took place on Monday, November 11 – ed.). What are your biggest fears going in?

Yes, it is kind of like a big exam. There are questions – 48 of them, I believe – and we know that views can be very different in certain fields.

Let us take the Middle East example. Some represent one extreme, while others take a diametrically opposite view, and we need to find a way to stick to the golden mean we have agreed on, without angering either side while still staying our course.

Have you had time to assemble your team? Do you know who you will be working with, in addition to head of office Vivian Loonela?

We have our eye on good people. We've had a flood of applications. While we have just 13 positions, we've received nearly 3,000 applications and more CVs are landing all the time.

Could we tell people to stop sending them in, tell them you're done?

No, keep sending them. It will be interesting the see the CVs we get in terms of the people and competencies we need. Interviewing and meeting with people is a part of preparing for when it will all kick off.

I'm sure the Estonian people want to know whether some of these posts will go to Estonians?

Some will, but it is limited. We can hire three Estonians. The reason is that we need to have a pan-European team, with members from different states. But we have good contacts with other commissioners and hope they will also hire Estonians.

It is a chance to make Estonia bigger, highlight our people at the European level. To give Estonia a larger footprint than our size would suggest.

When the Commission picked you, we heard a lot about how it was recognition for Estonia and so on. But why do you want the job?

There will come a time to talk about it, while it's true that I took a lot of convincing initially.

Really?

Yes. It did not seem like a dream job.

What were you dreaming of?

I was serving as prime minister of Estonia, I liked the role and wanted to stay in it. But if other European leaders try to convince you, tell you that they believe you'd be good for the role and that we could make Europe stronger together, it is not an offer easily brushed aside. You need to consider it.

In hindsight, I was sure until the last minute that a man from the Benelux countries would step in and get the job, because that is what has always happened. But it didn't this time.

Have you convinced yourself that you like the role now?

When the Council decision came, Ambassador Aivo Orav presented me with a book by Catherine Ashton, the first high representative, where she says, right at the beginning, that she is often asked whether she liked the job and always says no. I wondered why I hadn't read it sooner!

But I also met her, Federica Mogherini and Joseph Borell and asked them. Because I though about what I had gotten myself into if she disliked the job throughout those five years. However, Ashton then said that she liked the gig in hindsight. The others said it was the most interesting job they had ever done, and studying up, talking to representatives of other countries, I'm sure the job teaches a lot.

What will be your strengths in this office? Why do you believe you're a good fit for the role?

I believe we'll know when those five years are behind me. A strength of mine is that I have been behind the Council desk as a prime minister, I'm familiar, friends even, with everyone there and will be seen as an equal. Hailing from a small country is another advantage of mine. Talking with African or Latin American countries, coming from a country that has also fought for its independence is a bonus.

We also don't have the baggage that some other countries do and mine is a fresh face so to speak. It can create opportunities.

Are there questions you are particularly apprehensive of before the hearing?

Sure. The Middle East is a minefield, as I've said, with every extreme represented.

Where do you stand on the Middle East issue?

I'm where the agreement is. It covers four elements – a ceasefire and the release of hostages, so that both sides would spare civilians, for humanitarian aid to reach people and, finally, working toward the two-state solution. All of these elements can mean various things, but that is what we have in terms of common ground.

A week ago, the world held its breath as America elected a new president. I dare guess you were rooting for the candidate opposing Donald Trump?

We will work with whoever is elected the president of the United States. That is how democratic processes work and we have no say in the matter. The people of American have spoken, we know who will be president and we will have to work with his administration.

As prime minister, I talked to both Democrats and Republicans, including those close to Trump. For example, I've had a long conversation, a long debate with Vice President-elect JD Vance. Contact has been established.

As the EU's top foreign policy representative, have you spoken to Donald Trump or someone from his administration yet?

No, not directly. Firstly, because my counterpart has not been nominated yet. Second, I also haven't taken office yet. Once the hearing is behind me and a positive decision has been made, there will be more reason to talk.

Have you tried to map out the policy Trump will be pursuing and thought about how Europe will react, as it has been suggested already that Europe must become stronger and more united?

The scenarios for either candidate winning have been in the works for a while. But there are a lot of moving pieces. What's clear is that we have to represent European interests no matter who serves as the president of the U.S. It's also clear we must do a lot to ensure our own security, which is what we've been saying all along. Hopefully, this will hit home before it's too late.

Do you forecast critical developments, if only a trade war in the form of customs tariffs?

Talking to Americans, we'll try to send the message that it is not in USA's interest to wage two simultaneous trade wars. Because they do intend to wage one against China.

We are allies and should not both suffer in these matters. Considering that Europe is USA's main trade partner – Europe is the main trade and investment partner for 48 of the 50 states if memory serves – things happening here directly affect what happens in America. Based on what we know from Trump's first term, he's a businessman, and we need to play to the Americans' interests. But it's clear we have a lot of shared interests and ways to boost our influence in the world together.

It has already been suggested that a Trump presidency will require more from Europe. Figuratively speaking, while Trump will be making America great again, Kaja Kallas will need to make Europe greater still.

Every such situation is also an opportunity and it's clear that transatlantic relations are very important in my book. Every high representative has taken a different approach to these matters, while I have already discussed it with Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. I want to maintain the relationship, and considering foreign and security policy are largely up to me, that is also where EU-U.S. cooperation is strongest.

Let us talk about security policy. What will all of it mean for Ukraine? Donald Trump has been promising to end the war from day one. What does that mean?

No one really knows today. We can see who Trump is talking to, and everyone wants to try and interpret what it means. But we will have a better idea of where things are headed and an opportunity to speak up once we sit down together.

Do you rule out Ukraine having to surrender territory?

First of all, it is up to Ukraine to say what it is or isn't willing to do. Putting pressure on Ukraine is wrong, as it sends Russia – and not just Russia – the message that war pays off. If the Americans are worried about China, they should be forceful in how they react to Russia's actions, as all kinds of aggressors, who would love nothing better than to invade their neighbors, are looking closely at how Ukraine and Russia are handled. And should it pay off, we will surely see other such attempts elsewhere.

Who can Ukraine count on in a situation where we cannot be sure of what the Americans will do?

We will have to rely on ourselves and maintain EU unity.

But is Europe's Ukraine policy united?

Europe has been united so far. It has taken effort, but we've been united. Of course, it is being suggested that there's weariness, new conflicts etc. We see domestic developments in member states, and there's clearly desire to move past certain things. Everyone would like to, we want there to be peace in Ukraine. But we want a lasting peace, not a ceasefire that will usher in even more wars.

What could end this war? What could cause Vladimir Putin and Russia to pull back and give up?

Looking if only at Afghanistan, Russia stopped once it realized it had made a mistake and couldn't win in Afghanistan. That is the message we need to send Russia by backing Ukraine.

The Ukrainians will not give up and will hang in there, and we will continue to support them. So, ending the war is the only thing they can do. I'm not particularly concerned over how Putin will sell this to his people. Considering that Russia is not a democracy, I'm sure he'll find a way to make it sound like a major victory.

Looking at how sanctions are affecting Russia, I believe we shouldn't underestimate our power. Instead, we need to keep from wavering and stand firm in support of Ukraine. That will send Russia the message that they cannot keep this war going forever.

But are our much-touted sanctions working?

They are working. We know that Russia's central bank rate is over 20 percent and the sanctions are keeping them from borrowing elsewhere. Their national [reserve] fund is almost empty and their cash cows – gas and other fossil fuels –aren't making them the kind of money they used to because of the sanctions. We also know they are discussing painful political decisions they'll need to make, such as freezing pensions or raising taxes. These things aren't any more popular in Russia.

One example, at least as covered in the Estonian media, because it directly concerns Estonia, is Russia's shadow fleet behind Naissaar. The comment on everyone's lips is that the sanctions are not working.

They are working but we need more. There is the problem of countries taking [Russian] ships under their flag. But looking at discussions with insurance providers over not insuring these vessels because they are dangerous, they are having an effect. But does that mean we can rest and say we've done everything in our power? We cannot! We need to keep piling on the pressure for as long as the war continues.

But is what's happening on the other side of Naissaar a cause for concern?

It is of concern, very much so.

But there's nothing we can do about it?

There are deliberations in the International Maritime Organization (IMO), conversations and negotiations with the countries that are allowing these ships to fly their flags. Just as we talked about not insuring these ships with the relevant organization. If they are uninsurable, they also cannot be used.

Coming back to the Middle East, is it true that Estonia's policy was changed for the Palestine vote and where Europe is going to stand?

Such matters land in the UN all the time, with states deciding what they want to support through their vote. There is the aspect of phrasing, because the UN and how these things are put down legally is very specific.

The line we can follow on the Middle East is what we can all agree on, and it is a major task of mine to bring Europe back to the table where the conditions for peace are being discussed, as we are expected to support the situation after the war. But for that to happen, we need to be at the table. We'll also not be doing it without the U.S. and their influence in the region. We will also not achieve it without the Gulf states, which also wield a lot of power in the region.

Well, we can take a pretty educated guess at where the U.S. will stand in the Israel matter.

Yes, and that is why Europe has a clear role. Europe has supported Palestinian local governments, is their greatest donor, also as concerns humanitarian aid for Gaza. If we are talking about a two-state solution, the Palestinian Authority must also be developed.

The big picture is that Israel is worried for its security, while the Palestinians want their own state and sovereignty. One cannot happen without the other and vice versa. There have to be grounds for the nations' peaceful coexistence in the region.

What about China? What will Europe's China stance be during your term?

The European Union has a China policy in which context we have two major concerns. One is China's support for Russia's war and the other are unfair competition conditions their conduct has caused.

Listening to your answer, I must say that you are holding back, compared to when you were prime minister. Is it because you're task now is to build consensus?

Where am I holding back? What I said about the Middle East is what we've agreed on.

But do you feel that you could more clearly express a single country's position as prime minister of Estonia? That you had more freedom?

Did what I said about Russia in any way differ from what I've said before?

Not as such.

Well, there you go then. /.../ Of course, there are and will be many debates, but at the end of the day, my task in this role is to shape Europe's common foreign policy, so that we would be sending the same message, albeit using different voices and languages.

That said, it will be immensely difficult to achieve that in different matters. I hasn't always worked and it will not always work, but we must strive for it nonetheless.

How to achieve consensus between 27 members in these hugely complicated matters?

A task and a half that. But it depends on the topics. Consensus is easier to find in some matters than others.

What is the significance of you also becoming a vice president of the Commission? What does the role entail?

It means that my job has two sides at odds with one another. There is the high foreign affairs representative who is supposed to travel the globe and spend most of her time in the air. And then there is the vice president who should be present in Brussels to coordinate the work of the Commission and commissioners, that of foreign ministers for common ground to exist. These roles are at odds and a middle road needs to be found.

As far as I've spoken to former high representatives and different commissioners, they all say that in order to succeed in this office, one needs to invest a lot more in the latter, or the coordination side of things. Spend less time traveling and more time coordinating.

I've had several meetings with commissioners in my so-called cluster and there will be cooperation. I've also spoken to foreign ministers in terms of whether I can delegate to them some of these trips to faraway countries. So far, everyone has said they'd be delighted to help. We must see how we can take advantage of the fact there are so many of us.

In other words, you'll try to avoid the mistake where some have accused Josep Borrell of spending all of his time in the air?

Yes, I will try to share the load. We'll see whether I will fully succeed. Probably not. I've asked around and been told that there are a number of places where I have to be present. The first year especially will likely be quite intense, with a lot of traveling involved. But I will try.

How will your personal life change? Will you move your family to Brussels?

I don't know, as I've not been in this job before. But my husband and I will be moving to Brussels to coordinate all of it from here. But, yes, it will be difficult.

Will you be living in an apartment or emulate Ursula von der Leyen who said in 2019 that she lives at the back of her office?

To be honest, it is all quite difficult. We have been looking for an apartment, but there is very little available where we need it to be. I have no answer for you and no base here yet.

Are you still flying in from Estonia today?

Yes, and I live in a hotel.

How will you cope mentally? You are in for a challenging posting.

I am, while I have no answer for you here either. Let's talk again in five years. I'm coming out of the quietest period of my working life. I took a job during my first year in college, worked all through my studies and have been working since. But the long transitionary period has meant my life has been less intense than what I'm used to.

I feel I'm a better person when I have a busy schedule. I'm waiting for it all to start. But how to handle it all and what will be the major challenges is something I will be able to tell you in five years' time.

You said in a past interview that the prime minister's job is so intense that there's no time to exercise, except a seven-minute morning routine. Will you still have time for that?

Right now, I have time to play tennis and do all kinds of things, while I don't know what the future will bring. I believe I will find seven minutes though.

People, including [Kaja Kallas' father] Siim Kallas have said that there is no guarantee of success in the high representative's office. How could we measure your success five years from now?

I have written a few goals down in my notebook. Both as concerns different world regions, but also the External Action Service where reforms are due. So, those will be my yardsticks. But I will keep this list to myself for the time being as it is constantly being updated. Parts of the world are also very distinct, and you can achieve more in some than others.

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