What I find baffling is that you've repeatedly spoken of and drawn parallels with the situation in 1939. But history never repeats itself exactly. Even if we were to make the 1939 comparison, will the MOD permanent secretary and the armed forces commander resigning at the same time really improve matters?

You know, I was driving home from work yesterday thinking about whether I did the right thing. But I quickly concluded that I did. You mentioned 1939, so I would offer a quote and ask you in turn who spoke these words and when: "However, it is clear that if you don't help yourself, no one else will either. It is too late to be angry after the fact if you did nothing to resist when the time was right."

I really cannot say... Jaan Tõnisson perhaps?

It was [Johan] Laidoner sometime in the middle of 1939. Weighty words, especially from the man who failed to take action when it was necessary. Especially the second part of the sentence, how it's no use being angry later if you failed to take action. For Laidoner, it was useless to be angry in Siberia when it was decidedly too late.

The main reason for your resignation is that politicians haven't found €1.6 billion for munitions procurements. As a journalist, my first thought is that the resignation should not come from the permanent secretary but rather the Reform Party's Minister of Defense Hanno Pevkur who is responsible.

Let's start with the €1.6 billion. It is serious and I really am worried. We are not €1.6 billion short of an ideal situation or ticking a box. It's what we're short for Estonia to stand a chance before NATO troops arrive in the region. Whereas it is not some random sum we've come up with and is instead based on those very same NATO defense plans. It is extremely serious business!

As concerns politicians, they make their own decisions. But it's also true that the responsibility of the 101 members of the Riigikogu is not endlessly anonymous or shared – this would mean no one is responsible! Responsibilities have been distributed, with the defense minister and chair of the Riigikogu National Defense Committee responsible for national defense.

I do not want to intrude in the minister's affairs, and it is very hard work being a minister. Whereas this difficulty is not down to having to attend meetings abroad, visiting military units in Estonia or chairing meetings at the MOD. Everything is very well prepared and we have hallways full of top specialists in charge of these matters. What's hard is convincing the rest of the government of the importance of your administrative area, winning over other ministers and making the government take the correct decisions. That is what requires passion and the right attitude.

I'm sure you've met with different groups in the Riigikogu. What have you heard in terms of feedback? Have people just patted you on the shoulder, admitting that while what you're after is necessary, we'll have to see...

I've been in such meetings, and I know that the EDF commander has very likely met with all groups by today. Feedback has been varied – there has been support, and there are politicians who take this very seriously. For example, the education minister said yesterday how we need to maintain defense spending and invest there. There is support also in the National Defense Committee, but as I told the newspaper yesterday, the committee chairman's (Kalev Stoicescu – ed.) consolidated position was that covering our shortcomings should be up to our allies and not Estonia at all.

An absolutely scandalous thing to say!

I have to agree.

How did he explain the position that the Americans, Germans and Brits should pick up our defense tab? How did it happen?

I believe it would be fair to ask him. I would not put words in people's mouths.

Still, what was the nature of the conversation or argument for the chair of the National Defense Committee and a member of the ruling coalition to say something like that?

What I can say is that it didn't come up in the committee until Monday, and one of the committee members openly ridiculed our position.

Who?

A former Defense Forces member belonging to the Reform Party. They called into question the EDF commander's (Gen. Martin Herem – ed.) position and whether he has given it enough thought to begin with. Which I find scandalous.

It seems that the Riigikogu National Defense Committee has not been on good terms with you and Gen. Herem. Whence these differences?

The EDF commander and I have always talked about things as openly and transparently as possible. The reaction this has sparked will need to be explained by the members of the National Defense Committee. I do not want to speak for anyone.

Perhaps the funding shortfall has been insufficiently explained to the public? Maybe the defense minister should have said that we need €1.6 billion and proposed a temporarily higher VAT rate for an additional €200 million annually to service a loan to buy what we need. I believe people would have been a lot more understanding. Perhaps it's a problem of the clarity of messages?

Quite likely, as it would already be done otherwise. I suppose we haven't been convincing enough in our messages, and perhaps the politicians in charge haven't been structured or clear enough either.

But I would return to it being a critical shortcoming, and I say this with the entire MOD administrative area behind me in terms of the urgency of getting it done.

Why are you resigning in a situation where we have critical shortcomings? There is war in Europe. Isn't it a little irresponsible now?

I have given this a fair bit of thought. Both the EDF commander and I have made efforts to put these things on the agenda both behind closed doors and publicly. And I suppose it has not been enough for the problem to be sufficiently acknowledged.

There's nothing for it – I am probably clashing with some political lines in talking passionately about how I believe things stand. I am not proceeding based on what the defense minister has laid down in terms of official policy. And that is where a high-ranking state official needs to take personal responsibility. I cannot work here much longer if I wish to speak my mind.

Still, does that mean you are critical of the Reform Party? Come to think about it, [Prime Minister] Kaja Kallas has been curiously silent on the subject of this €1.6 billion loan.

You know, I would not saddle the entire government with the blame or suggest there is collective responsibility. The important thing is that we get our act together and get this thing done. To be honest, looking around, I'd even say that there is quite a lot of support for the initiative in the ruling parties (Reform Party, Social Democratic Party and Eesti 200 – ed.) and understanding that it simply needs to get done. Perhaps it will mobilize society to a sufficient degree, also as concerns the necessary VAT and other tax hikes that you mentioned.

Have you received job offers?

I have no binding offers at this time, while I will admit that my news yesterday did not go unnoticed.

You are very well versed in international affairs and a strong public servant, and we know that Kaja Kallas is probably headed to Brussels to be a European commissioner. Would you be interested in being her chief of staff should such an offer be made?

I've learned not to skin bears that are still roaming the forest.

While I've learned that if an interviewee says what you just said, it means there at least is a bear somewhere...

There are plenty of bears in the woods. I have no such concrete plan, to stop playing games. All manner of international job offers could be considered interesting, but what's to talk about if there's nothing to talk about at this time.

Are you looking at the international arena rather than something in Estonia?

My passion is to promote Estonia's national defense one way or another. For everything that I, my team and the entire defense field have been working toward for decades not to go to waste.

The political situation today, the way the Defense Forces and the field of national defense are structured cannot be a situation where having half an egg is better than an empty shell. We cannot afford half-baked solutions. We need a political agreement that we are defended, we need to be able to send that message to our brave reservists on whose shoulders much of it rests. And one crucial thing we'll need to be able to give them is certainty that their weapons and ammunition will outlast what the enemy throws at them.

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