Let's start with yesterday's news that Veiko-Vello Palm will be joining the reserves – and behind it is the debate that has been ongoing for some time already over how to keep officers who have reached more senior ranks in the EDF hierarchy active in national defense for longer. How would you comment the fact that at age 50 you've reached the ceiling, and in as small a country as Estonia, where good people are already so few?

No, there's no ceiling there; the number of spots for generals is limited. Estonia has 12 of them, off and on, as some positions at Baltic Defense College, for example, we share on rotation with the other countries.

And if these positions are all filled, and someone in one of them has served in it for three, four or even five years, then they'll feel they've reached their limit in that position. Then where do they go? Not to the post of the general next to them, because that spot's already taken. And rising up the ranks from below are typically smarter people. Right now it's still the case for us that better prepared [officers] still continue to rise up.

And then they have no other choice but to step aside. Join the reserves. And unfortunately our country really is so young, and the EDF too, that right now this is happening to people in their 50s or thereabouts. Most of them always have the opportunity to continue working in national defense – as a civilian at the Ministry of Defense, the EDF or the Estonian Defense League (KL); there's always an opportunity somewhere. But whether they themselves want to, and whether any is suitable and whether they are wanted as well is another matter altogether. But I don't currently see much waste or any sort of letting go here.

But Veiko-Vello Palm still did reach a limit?

Now he's a bit of a different story. Gen. Palm would certainly have continued to serve. Even after the [new] EDF commander was chosen. I dare say that no such competition exists between the generals today along the lines of "If I now didn't get the job, then I am no longer willing to serve together with you anymore." We have no such thing.

And I also know that when the decision [to appoint Andrus Merilo the next EDF chief] was made, then Palm was prepared to continue serving, or wanted to continue serving. But the smearing that took place in the press just totally crossed the line at some point.

And when several politicians involved in national defense have told you that they wouldn't trust you as EDF commander, then how do you feel as division commander or as commander of the Headquarters [of the EDF] or deputy commander of the EDF? After representatives of national defense institutions say they don't trust you.

Do you as commander of the EDF feel personally responsible for how things now ended up going with Palm?

I don't feel personally responsible. Maybe I should have done something differently over the past five years. Better gotten certain reserve and retired officers into my space. And in that case no such smearing would have taken place. I'm not taking any sort of personal responsibility here right now, but his departure is a major loss for the EDF.

But sooner or later we leave this organization anyway, and replacements are designated, which is why I'm not making too big a tragedy out of Palm leaving.

I will only note, however, that politicians with some sort of ambitions, some sort of disappointment or bitterness arising from some failure – they have the ability to simply smear and interfere with these processes. Not shape, but interfere.

It was noted in [Estonian daily] Postimees today that the simultaneous departure of several high-ranking officers from active duty should be a wakeup call to politicians, not an opportunity to interfere and disparage.

Yes, that may be so, but to some it may instead seem as though they're doing the right thing and have achieved something. So for them it's likely no wakeup call.

Where does what happened involving Veiko-Vello Palm put your successor, Andrus Merilo?

This kind of media rampage certainly isn't good for one's attention span. But otherwise we have a very good working relationship. Gen. Merilo is in my building as of today, and we're working together to ensure that he can smoothly take things over in June.

Looking back on your term as EDF commander, how many clashes with politicians like this did you find yourself in?

Quite a lot, and not just with my favorite [political] party [laughs]. When I first took over as commander of the EDF five years ago, I said that I would continue doing what Gen. [Riho] Terras did. Meaning defense readiness. The EDF is a military, and at any time must start defending the state.

We made quite a lot of decisions in that process: sports teams, other cuts, vaccinations. And for the most part, you're alone in the press at this point. A bunch of politicians who all think they know exactly what to do or just want to stand out – they start speaking without having any idea about the details or background.

In fact, only just three years ago it was said about the EDF to forget it, that "NATO will come and you are no [military]." That the uniform I'm currently wearing is an ugly patchwork of a uniform. These days, thanks to the president of Ukraine, it's very chic to sport tactical clothes like these.

In other words, there have been a lot of statements [made by politicians]. And I don't know whether to get attention or out of a desire to improve anything, but at that point you really are alone and you have to explain these things. And I'm not actually referring to the minister of defense here; things have been fine with all of them.

Right now, you're handing over the position to Andrus Merilo. But have you had time to think back over your five year-term and list your professional victories?

No, I haven't listed my professional victories. Of course I'm always thinking about some sort of objectives, as those have been set. And then you look at what you've achieved. But that isn't really significant travel back and forth in time.

How far has the EDF come under your leadership?

I'd change the emphasis on "my leadership." Four, five years ago, no one imagined that we'd have the capacity that we do today, or that we'll have by the end of this year or the end of next.

I believe this development has been incredibly impressive. Not just in terms of heavy equipment, but precisely in the capability we've managed to develop. And all of that is actually people's work; it's meant quite a significant additional burden. For the EDF; for officials. And that should absolutely be commended, and the EDF should be satisfied with that.

Reserve officer Ilmar Raag recently published an opinion piece in ERR's online news portal in which he wrote that the commander of the EDF has long since ceased being just a general in charge of troops – that they serve several national defense roles simultaneously. If you were to describe these roles a bit right now, what would you say?

So Raag was the one who said it and I have to explain? [laughs] No, I agree with you, because the commander of the EDF isn't merely a war planner. They also have to explain why we do certain things. And this explanation is really important, because our military is made up largely of reservists who aren't in the system on a daily basis and who read the papers and Facebook and get together with people they know and listen to politicians. And it can skew their opinion of the EDF if we're just being disparaged.

Just yesterday, for example, I read [in a comment by someone else] on [EKRE MP] Varro Vooglaid's Facebook wall that Herem dismissed ten general-starred officers last year, making room for either Palm or I don't even know who. And people nod along to that. He has 10,000 followers. This isn't true.

How many did you dismiss, then?

One last year, and five over the past five years. And I didn't dismiss anyone last year; rather, Gen. [Riho] Ühtegi himself voluntarily joined the reserves.

But this, in my opinion, creates a sort of distrust in the EDF when such facts are going around, and someone has to deal with them. And in my opinion this isn't dealt with much, and maybe then it is the defense chief's job to explain these things.

Or if someone says that we lack air defense and drones would kill us all, then I have to write a longer paragraph on Facebook somewhere about what our air defense is. No boasting or fighting with anyone, just explaining what we actually do have today. To still build that trust and some kind of self-confidence in reservists, but also in active duty servicemembers.

I happened to watch [Finnish public broadcaster Yle's] news on Wednesday night, where your successor Andrus Merilo gave an interview, saying, among other things, that "Russia will attack the West sooner rather than later. And there's no point wasting time over how much time we're being given; following the lesson learned from the war in Ukraine, it's crucial to be prepared to fight, and the first battle must be won. Halt that first wave and your country will remain and others will come to help."

I just said before he's the right guy. So I have to agree with this point.

There's been quite a lot of talk in recent months about the threat of war, and there are those who are angry about it and ask why frighten people. But the majority believe we have to be ready for anything, especially considering Ukraine. What can you tell the people listening right now that could comfort them, or what could serve as a reference point for people during these difficult times other than the already ever-present fear?

First of all, the fact that we'll manage. We'll manage just like Israel, South Korea or some other country constantly living next door to danger. We've managed thus far, and we'll manage in the future too.

We ourselves are getting better and better, and our allies are also more united with us than ever before. Not just because we have some kind of plans, but I believe our Western friends are increasingly sharing our understanding of this threat. And it's not a question of Estonia's defeat or the Baltics' defeat; if things go badly for us, then they'll go badly for the whole of Western society. And they know this quite well.

I have a feeling that that message by French President [Emmanuel] Macron – which, I don't actually know exactly what he said, but about sending boots to Ukrainian territory – I don't believe he's said we should send actual troops there, but rather that we be there. That we stop this risk aversion where we only give them money and ammo; that we go and do something there instead. That can be medics, deminers, trainers, anything – they don't necessarily have to be in the war.

But I believe that a statement like this is still indicative of an attitude or a sort of understanding of the Russian threat. And we're now actually hearing a lot more other politicians, likewise wherever – in Italy; in the Netherlands.

You've given a number of interviews about your departure, but haven't said exactly – what are you going to be doing now, starting around July? I'm guessing first off you'll likely take a vacation?

Well, yeah, most likely, I suppose I'll take a vacation too. I think I have something like 30 days [of vacation time] available.

But I'm going to conclude with a question for you sent in by ten-year-old listener Karl: "Exhaustion has probably already started creeping up on you. Can you breathe easy now, and is your military career over for good?"

Look, Karl, this military career can continue in the [volunteer] Defense League, for example. Perhaps somewhere in the Rapla District. And not only on Sundays, but maybe also on Tuesday nights. And, well, I am and will still remain a reservist, so in spirit I will still remain a member of the EDF. So nothing is over.

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