Members of the Riigikogu Estonia-China Parliamentary Friendship Group visited China between August 29 and September 9. While Estonia paid for their plane tickets, local expenses were covered by Beijing. The group's chairman, Toomas Kivimägi (Reform), vice-chairman Helmen Kütt (SDE) and members Andrei Korobeinik (Center), Anastassia Kovalenko-Kõlvart (Center), Lauri Laats (Center) and Mart Maastik (Isamaa) took part.

What kind of a trip was it?

It was a rather ordinary parliamentary visit to a foreign country. Many such parliamentary groups visit Estonia. I've met with them myself. They usually take an interest in the e-state and other such topics in Estonia. For some, Estonia is an important economic partner. China is a key economic partner for the European Union. Unfortunately, our trade relationship is heavily tilted toward imports – Europe's China exports are half of what we buy in.

An ordinary visit then? However, China is not an ordinary country. It is a communist dictatorship. Why was it necessary for Estonian MPs to go to China at this time?

Regarding China, I think Estonia needs to decide whether it is an ordinary partner with whom we have diplomatic relations. We have an ambassador in China, and their ambassador is in Tallinn. We pursue considerable economic cooperation with China. Or we need to say that they are not a partner for Estonia, but it needs to be our official position.

Estonia, the EU and USA all officially support the One China policy. And you need to have a concrete position on something like that. Right now, our foreign policy stance is that China is a single country, and a major partner for the EU. There are risks for the European Union in that China has a virtual monopoly in many sectors. For example, most solar panels coming to the EU are of Chinese origin. They have a strong auto industry, which the EU is planning to contain by way of customs tariffs, as the U.S. does now.

Yes, there is international communication, but the question is why visit China right now as a member of the Riigikogu? In a situation where China has said about the war in Ukraine that, "the U.S. is escalating the conflict," and "Russia invaded Ukraine to denazify it" etc. Who did you meet and what was the program?

We had meetings in the Chinese parliament, with mayors and the EU ambassador to China. Our ambassador was heavily involved in the program. In terms of positions, I believe the only way for Estonia to make its narrative heard is...

Yes, what was the narrative you voiced and how did you go about it?

Delegation head Toomas Kivimägi spoke for the group during meetings. He clearly emphasized the importance of NATO for Estonia. He also pointed out that China is among only a handful of states than can contribute to ending the war in Ukraine. If we think about where Estonia stands and whether China is aware of that position, I think they are not.

Do you believe the visit helped shed light on Estonia's position regarding the Ukraine war in China?

Ukraine's foreign minister visited China a month ago. High-ranking Estonian government officials are set to visit China later this year. I do believe that the visit has made it easier for our ambassador to voice these position at a higher level. Because while we cannot quite say that China is unfriendly toward EU members, not all ambassadors can access top-level meetings.

Do you believe the EU should take a friendlier line with China, while we know what they've done and said in the context of the Ukraine war?

I was talking about China's attitude toward our ambassador.

The EU's line needs to be concrete. Do we want to cooperate with China or not? For example, 80 percent of London coaches are made in China. In Estonia, we often rule out Chinese products in public procurements.

Do you think that should change?

That is up to every state, and we need to know the dangers and circumstances to decide whether it pays to do certain things with China. Not communicating at all would be another conscious decision. I believe these visits rather fall on the correct side of what needs to be decided there.

As a member of the Riigikogu's China friendship group, your role is different from just anyone who travels to China and talks to the people there. Thinking about China's treatment of the Uighurs, did you ask about that when meeting with influential members of the National People's Congress?

Yes, we did talk about human rights.

What did you discuss?

The problem of Hong Kong is quite serious.

What about the Uighurs?

We did not talk specifically about the Uighur people. Hong Kong is seeing an exodus of people worried about freedom of speech. There was major unrest. It was clear there that the so-called capitalist side of China is very different in terms of its structure, compared to Beijing.

Threats to free speech are tied to technological development. And we've seen that China is ahead of the EU and U.S. in some technological fields.

We know all that. But why did you allow China to pay for the visit as a member of the Estonian parliament?

China covered the local expenses. Estonia does that too.

China is not just another democratic country where it is a matter of courtesy.

I believe everyone can decide for themselves which countries are democratic and which are not.

Do you consider China to be a democratic country?

No, certainly not. The official political structure of China... the Communist Party rules there, which only has, shall we say, a loose connection to democracy.

But the host paying for the dinners of a parliamentary group's visit is still common practice. Estonia does that too – when a Chinese group comes to Estonia, it happens here too. I also doubt Estonia would block a visit by Chinese delegates, if they wanted to come.

The Estonian Foreign Intelligence Services (ISS) warned against Chinese influence activities in its recent report, against so-called soft power. Did you receive courtesy gifts in China?

I must admit I did not receive a single present. I cannot speak to whether it's common practice or not. China did not gift me anything, while you usually get something in Estonia. Toomas Kivimägi was handing out pens.

While we did not receive gifts, what we got a lot of was information from the Estonian side. All these risk briefings, on trade relations with China etc. It was a lot, but it was also very useful.

Finally, do you not feel the visit was out of place and embarrassing at a time when there is war in Ukraine, whereas China's role in it is not something Estonia can condone?

I believe every chance to move up the end of the Ukraine war is crucial. I am certainly not embarrassed. But again, if Estonia finds that we should not pursue cooperation with China, we need to recall our ambassador and close all other channels of communication.

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